Human Centered

Hi, everyone, and welcome to Human Centered. I'm Nick Brunker, a managing director of experience strategy at DML and your host for the show. Thanks for giving us a listen. Today, we're exploring the unique and complex role of the healthcare CMO. How do you market a product that is fundamentally about trust, care, and human vulnerability?

How do you build a brand when your customer's journey is one of the most personal they will ever undertake. We'll discuss how marketing and communications set the stage for this patient experience, build community trust, and navigate incredible responsibility of being the voice for a mission driven health organization. To help us navigate this landscape, I am so thrilled and thankful to welcome our guest today as the vice president and chief marketing and communications officer for the Christ Hospital Network and perhaps as importantly, a Cincinnati Business Courier 40 Under 40 honoree. Jenny is an expert in this very challenge. Jenny, welcome to the show.

Thanks for joining us.

Thanks for having me. That was quite the intro as well. I think you pretty much summed up healthcare marketing in a few sentences. So well done, you nailed it.

You know what, it's a crazy time I'm sure to be in the space coming out of COVID and your time with the Christ Hospital kind of overlaps in that area. So I am thrilled and really excited to kind of dig in with you on all things healthcare and certainly in your role. I'd love to hear a little bit more about it and what is leading marketing and comms for a major health network look like day to day?

Well, I'll start out by saying it's an absolute privilege. There's not many industries that one can work in where you go to bed feeling like you've made impact and purpose like you do in nonprofit healthcare. I truly believe that every touch point is the ability to, like you said, build trust and drive, know, just patient loyalty to the organization by providing the best care, the best experiences, and also by making it affordable. And so I really use that, our mission statement, as our true north in everything I do and every story I tell and every channel that we pick to be able to eloquently assure that our community and their healthcare is well taken care of and we're always providing that value.

We're gonna get into a lot of things in this half hour or more, but you have a fascinating career path because I think when you look at the space, it is so unique and challenging and for all the reasons you just talked about, a very emotionally, I don't wanna say tense, but there's a lot going on. It's like the joke we talked about in our pre show was in a lot of cases, marketers aren't saving lives. Your business is in the business of saving lives and improving lives. Yet you you come from agency side with with brands like P and G and you you rose to the c suite there. Could you walk us through the journey of your path to the CMO suite and how it's prepared you along the way for all those unique demands of being in the space that you're in now?

Absolutely. I mean, so I grew up knowing and being able to observe the power of healthcare. My mom is a nurse. My father worked for the Food and Drug Administration. So they both really served their community through care and protection.

But what I also realized at a very young age that science and math were not my strong suit. So, you know, I went down the path of, you know, communications, public relations, eventually ended up getting my master's in healthcare communications because I knew very early on that I wanted to be in the healthcare space. I did a lot of my research and my thesis on behavior and communication around food and eating disorders, and then carried that into the agency space at Northlake, where I had the privilege to work on a large span of clients, everything from Ohio State University, Wexner Medical Center, and helping them with their name change and volume building campaigns. Worked on the We Thrive campaign for Healthy Living Among Youth within Cincinnati. But then also got to be exposed to brands like White Castle and Long John Silver's and Totes Isotopes.

And while they're all amazing brands and it takes all kinds and there's a space for everything, reading the comments about the personal and health effects of White Castle assured me that I did not want to work in And food and while, you know, the comfort of products and CPG are very important, I definitely found myself gravitating and really feeling passionate within healthcare. Life took me to a smaller agency after my first two kids where I realized that agency life is awesome, but also being there till eight or sometimes 2AM working on RFPs and pitches Yeah. Wasn't the most conducive to to small children. And so actually went to more of like a thirty to thirty two hour role at Madison Design Group, which was great for my life then and got to work, like you mentioned, on Cintas, Procter and Gamble, but then also got to oversee the whole Cincinnati Children's account. So I love the Christ Hospital brand.

I also love the Children's brand. They are such an asset to this community. And my favorite days were the ones where I got to go to the hospital, meet with the doctors and work on the work of children's. That's, it sounds, I don't know, of silly or nuanced, but I remember telling my agency then that I was going to Christ Hospital. I couldn't explain it, but all I said is like, I can't explain it, but I need a badge.

Like I want a badge that I can wear around that says that I work for a hospital. Like it was so meaningful. It was like an exterior way to show what I do and something that I was proud of. And so I got the job at Christ ten years ago and just worked my way up from there. I started on Heart and Vascular, which is really kind of a really unique brand for us and provides some of the best care in the world.

And then I just kept asking for more. I asked to take another service line and then blessing or curse, asked to take over internal communications and public relations about one month to COVID hitting. While it was a grind and it was, you know, just turned our lives upside down in every way you can imagine, from a career standpoint, it really did give me the opportunity to show what I could do at that level and that type of stressful environment and honestly laid the foundation for me to get into this role by virtue of just my dedication and willingness to grind it out in the hardest times. So really sad about everything that happened with that, but trying to find some silver linings.

Absolutely. And I mean, you do mention the idea of of marketing as a as a mission, you know, to use the example of the badge. And as as a CMO of of any brand, it's it's about building trust and confidence in the brand. And and for most industries, and it's a great place to kinda dig in a little bit to the X's and O's so to speak. Marketing is building brand preference.

And in healthcare, you're building something much deeper, which is that trust aspect is so fundamental to what you do in marketing and it really changes the marketing playbook. I think we can start there with the role of a CMO, how it's different for you in healthcare compared to other industries. Is it different and what are the core principles that you rely on?

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the biggest differences is that we're a secondary category. When you think of healthcare, you don't really wanna think of healthcare, right? You don't want to go into a hospital. You don't want to have to go to the doctor. You know, there's a lot of stress around, you know, being proactive and obviously being reactive within the health space.

And so the strategies of staying top of mind in a very positive and opening and trust building way in a fiscally responsible way, I think is one of the biggest challenges, right? Because we're not even talking about, you know, driving people to primary care, but we're talking about how do you make sure that if someone finds out that they got diagnosed with cancer, that you are the first hospital that comes to mind? And I think, you know, for me, I am deeply rooted in Northern Kentucky and Cincinnati. All of my family and friends live here. Like I am driven as much of getting people into the doors of the Christ Hospital as I am fulfilling the mission and making sure that my own family and friends and networks have access to the best care.

And unless we're bringing people to us, unless we are driving volumes, unless we are getting market share, unless we are, you know, fulfilling the promise of creating access for all and letting people experience that, then I'm not doing my job. So I think, you know, what I push on my team is this is all full circle. It's not just getting people in the door. It is making sure that the minute they hit that door, that experience is superb. And that experience when they leave is superb because the community is our best advertising.

Right. Right.

I mean, can have the best commercial. I can have the best billboards. I can do the best Facebook campaign. But as long as someone walks in here, if they don't have the best experience, that's all for naught.

Yeah. And if you translate that into actionable strategies, marketing and comms, yes, there's there's obviously a reliance and almost a a requirement that your advocates are the ones really doing the heavy lifting in the marketing space. But how does the the mission driven organization that you guys have translate into marketing and comm strategies that resonate with the community and set the expectations on the care that they're gonna receive when they come to the Christ Hospital?

Yeah. I mean, I tell my team and I position myself, I'm a strategic storyteller. Like, I sometimes feel like a fraud because people are like, oh, you know, you're a great marketer. You're a great well, I have great content. Like, I have the best physicians.

I have the best nurses. I have the best patients all willing to tell their stories. Without their stories, without their experiences, without their intellect, I would have nothing. My brand is our mission. And that's kind of all I focus on all day, every day.

What stories can I tell that the people know that we will provide the best experience for you and your family? What stories that can I tell of innovation and technology that you are assured that you will come here and have the best outcomes no matter what care you receive? And what stories can I tell to allow you to feel confident that you can show up and pay for this? And I think without those three tenants and the stories underneath, you know, I have nothing. So the mission fuels my strategy because the mission are the stories that we tell.

And you were talking through telling those stories and evolving the communications approach during the COVID nineteen pandemic. And we talked about it a little bit off the top, but what did that crisis teach you about the role of the CMO in maintaining public trust and providing clarity in times of uncertainty, which I think was not just in the hospital and the healthcare space, but across the entire world. Tell me a little bit about that crisis and what it taught you.

I mean, it taught me the ability to be nimble. We went from, you know, investing in creating a consumer driving campaign to quickly pivoting to how do we educate this community on what to do and what not to do, and really the emphasis changed. We really needed to focus on internal communications and assuring that our team members felt safe. You know, we were we knew that we had the PPE that we needed. We knew that we had the space that we needed.

We knew that they had access to the vaccines that they needed. Yep. And so it the the emphasis and the prioritization really shifted. But because we have a really small, nimble, gritty team and a small, gritty organization, I feel like we were able to pivot a lot quicker than some other organizations. And I think that's what I love about this group.

While we're almost 40 years old, we're relatively new as a singular hospital when we broke off from the Alliance in about 02/2008, 02/2009. And so we built this network from scratch over the last fifteen, twenty years. And so we're all still, working through being that cohesive organization. And I think the communication strategy, especially through COVID, really did help bring us together. So kind of be, again, it's the grit, it's the ability to be nimble and flexible and really practicing agile marketing.

And it's not an easy thing to do when you're doing this with a multi matrix organization where their day to day is literally saving lives in a lot of cases and finding the right stories. I think the other thing that I'm curious about is, and we'll get into this in a little bit in the next section, but consistency and creating a brand story that's consistent with not only the physicians, but when you're telling a patient's story, there's a lot of privacy and there's a lot of sensitivity. And as a CMO, I mean, that is a different type of challenge when you're like, man, that's a great story. But how can we tell it thoughtfully and even get somebody who is willing to tell that that sort of a story? Tell me a little bit more about the the experience of creating it consistently brand story wise while facing the challenge of, this is a sensitive issue and a sensitive story in a lot of cases.

No, absolutely. Think has been one of the biggest surprises to me is the willingness of our patients to share their experiences. A lot of them will come out of really traumatic or hard situations and be looking for an outlet to give back and thank their physicians, to thank their organization, or to spread awareness around something that they caught or had symptoms of and don't want to see somebody else go through. You know, there's a lot of research behind medical storytelling and it's a type of therapy for patients especially either why they're going through or coming out of a traumatic health situation and so, I can't, I honestly, there is not probably a single topic that we've tried to promote that I haven't been able to identify as a patient that's willing to come forward and share their story. So again, I think it goes back because they have this deep gratefulness towards their physicians and towards their care teams that really inspires them.

And I'm just happy that we can provide them that outlet. Know, people have time, treasure, and talents that they can give. And we know we're always like helping people understand all of their options if they want to give back. But I'm lucky enough that I get to embrace the treasure of them being willing to share their story and help spread awareness and key messages on our behalf. So that's definitely something that I think maybe other brands don't experience that much from a testimonial standpoint.

The CMO role in a lot of cases, especially these days, is equally focused on the customer experience, whether truly in ownership of that role or certainly a very important partner in building CX. And obviously as the show is titled Human Centered, working through the patient's journey in your industry's case, As a marketer, you're often that first point of contact, as you mentioned, just getting people to be willing to be ambassadors for the brand, setting the tone long before someone actually walks through the door. So let's talk about how you approach that. And from a marketing perspective, there's that seamless narrative that bridges the digital front door, which still needs to exist, the website, social search, etcetera, with the in person clinical experience. So when you think about the patient journey, I'd love to hear more about your perspective and how you bridge those things because it is not like many industries are a digital only experience.

In fact, while they're in healthcare or more budding digital experiences and digital exclusive like, you know, virtual care, etcetera. You're in the space of really being tight when you think bridging digital and physical. Let's talk about that.

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I'm very blessed that I have an amazing marketing team and they are as ambassadors about consistency as I am. I think the strongest brands are the ones that have equipped all of their team members to tell the same brand story no matter what setting they're in and also being proud to tell that story. And so I would say, from what we push forward, we have a very strong external campaign. We launched Everything It Takes in 2019.

We did a lot of upfront research, both internally to assure that it resonated and was motivating and inspirational to our own team members and really built it from the bottom up to assure that when people do hit our doors, that they really feel that my people are doing everything it takes for me and for my family. And so that external facing campaign, we are very intentional and deliberate to assure that that is tight across all external channels, whether it's TV, whether it's radio, whether it's social media, that all same look, feel, tone. And so I think we're very disciplined in our practice of bringing that campaign forward. We also take more of like a blitz agile approach because the shift in the industries is so volatile in healthcare and opportunities present themselves often of which we can move into different geographies, can move into different services or things that are completely out of control kind of bubble up, you know, that we need to hop on. But we know we because we have that consistent framework that we can quickly piece that campaign together because those templates, that consistent look, feel that is laid and we have the equity within the community.

So yeah, so I think doing the heavy work upfront to make sure that our tagline and our brand promise to the community is enforced and emphasized and embraced internally is what's allowed that campaign to be so successful. And we're also very deliberate if it doesn't, know, if it's not within the Everything It Takes campaign, it can't be outside of evergreen. So I get five or six things that come across my desk a day, a t shirt design, a flyer design, you know, like something like the I'm, like, very kindly known as the brand police here, and I take pride in that because I feel responsible for any touch point And that has our logo on so, you know, if you're doing something tie dye, I'll tie my color palette, like, I'm not gonna be like, I'm not gonna endorse that because the minute that you take that out in the community or wear it around here, you're you're you're watering down the brand. You're watering down the consistency. So we are very deliberate in that discipline in that.

That comes from the top down and is lived, I think throughout.

The other challenge I'm interested in unpacking with you is at VML we talk about brand experience, BX, the more traditional campaign planning, etcetera, is making a promise. And the CX side of the house, and it's not this this pedantic, but the CX side of the house is proving the promise. And obviously, both sides of the coin have to be collectively working together, with leaders on both sides of the house. Where I find it really fascinating in your role as a CMO is you've got the, you know, brand promise, the campaign planning, all the marketing executions, telling really great stories. And then there's the lived experience once somebody comes in through the doors.

And that's where the the brand promise ultimately gets paid off or not by partnership with clinical and operations and all the other physical, human beings and departments that that go into a good experience. How do you wrestle with as a CMO in the role you have here responsible for kind of both sides of that, BX and the CX?

Yeah. So, know, in my role, I get to not oversee all external communication and marketing, but I also manage all the internal communication. And so it's, you know, a very big piece of our strategy to assure that our team members know the mission. They feel like they are part of a culture of winning. They're part of a culture of providing the best care and feel that.

And they feel informed and they feel inspired to go about their day. So I almost am finding, especially in these times when there's high turnover in healthcare, there's shortages within physicians, there's shortages within nurses, Like that's quickly becoming more than 50% of my job because I can say all day that you're going to come in and get cared for for the best. But unless I can get the best here and keep them here, then I'm not fulfilling my brand promise. So our fiscal year twenty six just kicked off, and I think I've spent more time on our internal communication strategy and culture building efforts and building that out. We launched a new podcast last week to spotlight amazing team members across the organization.

I just, right before I came to this, presented to our Aspire University on a whole facilitate a personal branding presentation to train people on how our own team members to go out and be brand advocates in a responsible and inspirational way. My days are starting to look a little bit different between, you know, working on a lot of operational work within our Forward two point zero, my marketing side, and then my internal comp side.

Crazy. And a lot of fun too, I would expect in in these times where, you know, thinking about, you know, digital evolution and and technology really advancing at a crazy pace in all industries, especially in health care. There there, I'm I'm sure areas where you're kind of having to look at, Alright. So how do these new technologies bake into our experience knowing there's so much privacy and ethical and, you know, even legal issues you gotta kind of navigate on any given day? Where do you see the biggest opportunities for marketing to reduce friction and anxiety for patients as they navigate this healthcare system?

Well, I think first you have to create an experience that they're for now familiar with. I mean, we all want to be the Amazons of the world. Health care is already a very stressful situation. I mean, I, you know, I journaled yesterday. I had a checkup and I mean, my anxiety all day was through the roof.

Like, I promote health care all day, every day, and I hate going to the doctor. Like, I understand. Like, like, white coat anxiety is a real thing because you just never know, like, the information that you're gonna get. Right. And so you could you could live in blissful ignorance and just make the assumption that everything is great and nothing will go wrong, or you can do what I'm trying to do and is really encouraged even to my own self that prevention is key, early detection is key, and establishing a quarterback relationship with your provider is key.

So, you know, I think like I have to internalize and believe anything that I'm willing to put all of my efforts into. And I'm even finding myself trying to change my mindset to really push out the message effectively and efficiently that, you know, it's good to come. Now, it's challenging, right? We are so there's

a lot

of red tape in healthcare marketing. For sure. You know, what I say I want to be the Amazons, but Amazon, you know, is retargeting. They're redistributing. We can't do any of that.

Like we cannot use any information that relates to healthcare to promote our brand in any way, shape, or form. We don't even have tracking on our website. I have no idea how people are getting to us, where they're coming from. Yeah. Yeah.

So we're we're very limited in terms of the metrics that we're able to capture and like in in being marketing successful but just the digital front door all the way around. I really have to trust our new patient metrics. I need to trust our market share reports that can prove that we're doing what we need to do to develop that trust in a way that's responsible and legal.

Do you see that evolving over time? Because what I find fascinating in that is it really doesn't allow for more, like I would call it modern, what has become a kind of established practice for if you have these digital ecosystems, you're gonna be able to leverage certain types of data, obviously, you know, with limited, know, availability to certain data in your space. But do you see a world where the shackles come off a little bit or or are we gonna see it go the opposite way where as more data becomes available, health care becomes even less restrictive? What a what a crazy, dichotomy that you're facing. Do you see it changing at all?

I think if anything, it's continually gotten more restrictive and we're we're preparing for that. So I think, you know, we continue to try and figure out ways to show our KPIs and show our value to the organization and be fiscally responsible without actually being able to have metrics around cost per acquisition like any normal business would do. So yeah, I mean, it's definitely a challenge. But I think at the same time, it also makes us a lot more authentic. And just like, again, the mission is at the forefront because I don't have any other metrics or virtues or ways to show that everything that we are doing is leading to a transaction.

I truly am just pushing out amazing stories and taking community sentiment and taking our new patient and for like data as to how many people come through and how we are in comparison to our competitors at face value to assure that we're doing a good job and I don't mind it because you know, I'm I'm the warm and fuzzy girl. My goal is to make sure that when I post something on social media about Christ Hospital, that I have everyone saying that we love you, we love your brand, and, you know, we wanna utilize you. So that to me is my success metric most of the day.

No question. And I think the other really interesting dichotomy you're faced with is there are patients who are also consumers of other things and they become trained to have, you know, I'm just gonna completely cross industries, but two day shipping from prime. I can schedule my appointment for anything that I want. I can, you know, pick up and drop off, you know, whatever I'm buying. Like, I can I can do any kind of of my activities in my daily life through my my digital system, whether it's an iPhone or any other, you know, handheld, or if I jump on a website and I'm gonna mess around, I can pretty much do all those things relatively easily?

And all those industries get to reap the benefits of of all the data and the retargeting, all the things we talked about in in modern marketing. Yet there are gonna be some areas that I think in health care, you got a couple of challenges you're running up against. One is is what we just talked about, which is just the the ability to leverage the data. And then two is the fact you've got similar to maybe some other industries, but I still think unique to health care. You got physicians and physicians assistants and teams of people that, yeah, it's not as easy as, yeah, let's just do an online scheduler because it's more nuanced than that when you get to consider Absolutely.

You've got the network and then you've got all the physicians calendars and schedules. Like many stakeholders in the game to deliver on the experiences at the Christ Hospital. How do you, get to kind of put your thumb in the soup a little bit on making the experience well while you're also, you know, challenged with all the the hindrances we just talked about?

Yeah, no, this is fun. I actually just told this story and as a way to kind of show off some perseverance. But, know, so about two and a half years ago, we made the decision coming out of COVID to partner with a consultant that would help us just operationally transform and really kind of push forward our growth, our sustainable growth, and look at some of our internal processes and help clean those up. And so that project kicked off. Our COO kind of was the transformation officer over the project.

And I don't know. I can't explain it, but I just had this feeling like I need to be a part of this. And so, you know, as the project was ramping up and they were putting together the steering committee, I put fifteen minutes on his calendar and it just said, Catch up. And I walked into his office and I had like an outline of all the reasons that he needed me on that steering committee. And it was how to effectively communicate the why, like why are we engaging with this consulting firm?

Why are these people coming into my offices and telling me that my operational efficiencies are all wrong? Why are these people trying to move my cheese? Right? The communication to the organization that we are engaging in this and the why behind it, being able to tell the board members why it's been successful or why it hasn't, being able to tell the leaders of these different projects why we need you to lead these projects effectively. And you know, it didn't take that much convincing.

I got on the steering committee and, you know, away we went. Well, about eight months into the project, he got an opportunity to be a CEO at a hospital out of state. And so that transformation officer spot was open. So I took my list, then to my boss, and reiterated all the reasons why I needed to be over this project. And I think, you know, originally it was to get a stretch project for me as a development opportunity, but it's become so much more than that because I get exactly what you said, the complicated weave of health care systems.

So I'm working on things in rev cycle. I'm working some things on TCHP in the clinical offices, you know, OR efficiencies, like clinical variation, like scopes that were completely outside my purview.

Yeah.

But realizing that, again, I can't do anything I'm doing effectively unless these are done effectively. And so to your point about, you know, being able to seamlessly access, we we have an access problem. There's a high demand for our services. People want to come to the Christ Hospital. Yep.

But there are geographical barriers and our inability to build a lot in Northern Kentucky. There are provider barriers that we just like can't can't get enough of specific services that people just really want of the Christ Hospital. But we do also have opportunities to get our physicians to be able to open up more new patient appointments through some operating standards and things of that sort. So being able to like help facilitate that back end, because I also hear the voice of the community that we want you, we need you, like, and I can't get to you, has been, you know, given me another layer of appreciation of how hard it is, but how important that is.

We've talked about strategy and the patient journey. Now I'd like to focus a little more on leadership. And your career is just a fantastic roadmap for aspiring leaders. You mentioned some of your experience elsewhere with different industry verticals and agency and elsewhere. And we talked a little bit about your path to the role you have now.

You know, you also mentioned being able to to be flexible and nimble. What are some of the other pivotal moments or key skills that you've developed that you feel like have prepared you to take on the leadership position that you have now, but then all the other ancillary things that you just talked about, taking on as leader?

I think I've really changed my focus over the last three years in being a leader. I think for so long, I grew from being an individual contributor.

Yeah.

I was, you know, good at building campaigns for my service line. I was good at building communications for, you know, my responsibilities. Like, I I could deliver on, you know, the the things that were on my job description. But what I've found is that individual contribution is nothing unless you're able to lead more people to do it. And I'll be honest, it's been a struggle because I've come up through the marketing team.

I've worn every hat. And so there's definitely a way that I did things and still continue to think that they should be done. And so I think what I've had to learn is taking a step back, surrounding myself with an absolute A team, which I have in place right now. My directors run this, they run the ship. That's why I've been able to do all these stretch projects because I have complete trust and faith in their abilities to be strategic, to be creative, and to be leaders to the rest of the team.

So I'm finding that the most important part of leadership is allowing your leaders to lead and allowing your people to grow and try new things. And my job now, I feel like in the marketing department, even though I like to insert myself on all the fun things, is removing barriers. What do you need in marketing to be successful? And let me take that to the top and figure out where we can meet your needs. So it's definitely evolved, but without my great team, I'm nothing.

And I just have greater appreciation of that now and continue to figure out like, how do I keep them happy? How do I keep them fulfilled? And how do I continue to help them grow? So I tell them all the time so they can take my job.

Exactly. Building the leaders of the future while you're leading the organization, for sure. I think it's not an easy thing to do. And the other interesting thing about your role is you're also the voice of the patient within the organization in a lot of ways. How do you use that role to champion that patient first mindset and influence decisions that are beyond the scope of your day to day in your department?

Yeah. I mean, so I was one of my greatest achievements, I think, is when I first joined the exec team, we would start every meeting with, like, a quality moment. And it was usually like, this was the last fall or this, you know, you know, thing happened in the OR. And it was like, it it set the tone for the first two hours of what would be, you know, sometimes uplifting, sometimes very stressful, but a meeting amongst all of our leadership. And I basically asked, like after my first exec meeting, could we start every meeting with a mission moment?

And so every Tuesday at exec Team, I start the meeting with sharing a new story that ran that week, a letter that was submitted by one of our patients through Pest Gainey. I share a video that my team produced. I'll share a Facebook post that we've had a ton of engagement and love on. And that is how we start. We start from the perception of our patient.

I try and carry that through everywhere I go. Now we do that for every board meeting. Every board meeting, I start it with one of those assets to really set the tone or remind people like budget discussion is going to be hard today, quality discussion is going to be hard today. But guess what? It's necessary because of this person's story and this patient's outcome and this family's experience.

I think that those are just two examples of how I've made sure that the patient and what I hear from them and the stories they tell me remain at the forefront of all we do.

Looking forward, what do you see as the next big evolution or challenge for healthcare marketing and the role of a CMO in there?

Oh boy. That's a great question.

Leaving with a hard one.

No, that's a great question. I think if you look at the research, a lot of chief marketing officers struggle with having a seat at the table and being able to show their value to the organization. Commonly, there was an advisory board survey that the research just came out about that. Within healthcare, a marketing budget is anywhere from 0.2% to 5% of the overall net revenue of the organization. So there's a lot of discourse and narrative around the under appreciation of marketing.

I've never felt that. I've always felt like marketing here at the Christ Hospital and communication as well is an integral part. I feel that from our leaders that I work with that are always, they're engaged with what we are doing. They're asking, they're telling, they're sharing, they're advising, they're a part of the marketing team in my opinion. What I'm finding is that's not everywhere.

I think you'll hear that that continues to be a challenge for marketing teams to be able to showcase their value. I've not had that. But it still continues to be a support service. So clinical will always be the priority. I think that's totally fine, but assuring that we continue to make sure that we're relevant, we're always adding value and serving the mission, I think is just what we have to lock in on.

That's great. Before we wrap up, I'd love to do a quick fast facts, off the cuff questions to learn more about Jenny. And Yeah. I know there were a few, so we'll rattle them off fast before we wrap up. Alright.

First one, is there something people might be surprised to learn about you?

Well, I think you already know the answer to this, but I held the three point record at my high school. So I'm still very proud of that. Gosh, no. I think it was broken like two years later, but it did get me into my high school sports hall of fame. So I'm still proud of that.

I still like to, you know, have a good horse and pig games with my kids to remind them how good I was. You're you're

your generation's Caitlin Clark is what you're telling me. Got it.

Yeah, exactly.

Alright. Number two, what's the most recent experience that you've gotten to cross off your bucket list?

Bucket list? Bucket list. I mean, sounds super cheesy and corny, and I'm not just saying this because my boss might hear this, but the work that I'm able to do in this operational transformation and really go beyond just what I like to call myself, the chief picture officer and chief T shirt officer has been been an absolute dream. And I just hope that I continue to be able to grow and and expand, you know, my contribution to the hospital.

That's awesome. I guess one one thing that's still on your bucket list that you wanna cross off next.

I got a talking to from my in laws this weekend, which, first of all, they have eight kids. So this, like, this will be crazy for you to hear, but not crazy. But I've never had a passport. I've never left the country ever. Really?

Yes. Wow. And they were appalled. Like, my father-in-law was, like, probably in Germany or somewhere right now. Like, he travels all over the world.

They both travel a ton. And they're like, what do you mean you never left the country? I'm like, I've been married to your son for fifteen years. Like, when do you think I left the country? Like, you would have been babysitting if I left the country.

You know this. You should know this.

You know this. But yeah. So I do have ambitions, to potentially travel abroad at some point.

What's on your list? I mean, do you have, like let's just say you have a chance to go somewhere first out of the country. Do you have one on the list already in mind?

I think our family would like to go to Ireland. My husband has very deep roots in Ireland. My in laws have traveled there. All my brothers and sister in laws have traveled. We're the only ones that have not been.

So I feel like just to keep up in conversation, I need to get there.

Your social calendar requires this. So I think it's

time to

go get a passport. So Exactly. Jenny, such a great conversation. We've covered so much. Thank you so much for taking the time.

I know you're swamped with all the things that we just talked about on your day to day. We really appreciate you sharing your expertise and perspectives, and hopefully, we can do this again soon. Thanks.

I would love to. Thank you so much for having me.

And thanks to you all for listening to human centered as well. If you'd like to connect with Jenny, we've included her LinkedIn profile in the show notes, and you can also learn more about the innovative work they're doing by visiting the christhospital.com. We'd also love to hear your feedback on the show. You can give us a rating and offer up your thoughts wherever you get your podcasts, including Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon, and more. If you have a topic idea or just wanna drop us a line, you can connect with me on x at Nick Bunker, or just shoot us an email.

The address is humancentered@VML.com. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.