Human Centered

Hi, everyone, and welcome to Human Centered. I'm Nick Brunker, a managing director of experience strategy at VML and your host for the show. Thanks for giving us a listen. Every January, innovators and industry leaders from around the world to send on Las Vegas for CES, the Consumer Electronics Show, where we get a glimpse yet again of what is shaping our future, what's ahead, and who better to guide us through these emerging innovations than our very own VML chief innovation officer, Brian Yamada. Fresh from the show floor in Vegas, Brian's gonna help us unpack some fascinating developments from AI's evolution into the experience era to robots designed to make us feel more human to breakthrough technologies and health and accessibility.

We'll explore how artificial intelligence is moving beyond just content creation to reshape how we interact with technology in our daily lives, and most importantly, what that means for brands and marketers. Brian, welcome back to the show. Thanks for doing this again.

Hey, Nick. How are you doing? Thanks for having me.

Doing well. You're a busy man and flying around all over the place, including Las Vegas. So I appreciate you taking some time afterwards, to kind of, decompress a little bit and chat about what you learned. Probably safe to assume as the intro would suggest, kinda going into the year AI was going to be on the center stage in 2025. You mentioned that as we were kind of prepping for the show that while there might not have been any single breakthrough moment at CES, what's fascinating, you say, is how rapidly everything is evolving.

Tell us more about that.

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you know, you think about CES has had flying cars, robots, for for a number of years. So, it's it's not like we're we're seeing things for the first time, but I absolutely think that everything is moving, at at a very high speed, meaning progressing, refining, getting closer to, getting closer to today. Even things so artificial intelligence, everybody has been talking about it for a while, but I would say, like, it it used to sound futuristic.

It's here. It's built into the products. It's powering, it's powering them. And and, and not in in all cases, it's not necessarily perfect, not in its vital form, but you can definitely see how much faster, and better all these different smart technologies are becoming.

You've attended CES for for many years, and you kinda talked about how the speed in which it's evolving is impressive. How is this year's presence of AI different than from previous years, if if at all?

You're you're starting to see it. It's it was less marketing buzz. I I don't think, I think in last year's show, maybe maybe the last couple, everybody was talking about AI because they felt they had to. Mhmm. I would say you're starting to see it truly, like, functionally integrating, powering the products in in in better ways.

And again, it it not necessarily always in final final form, but I think, I think you you're seeing, better, smarter use cases, better, smarter features that are starting to come through and, that, you know, easing the interface layer a bit more.

Mhmm. And and you're talking about that layering approach or or how AI has evolved from being a creation tool where you're punching in a prompt and it spits out some stuff, or even as it evolved, quickly, as you mentioned, with the ability to create an image that's, you know, more and more on point to what you prompt it with. Walk us through how it's evolving from that creation tool to more of an experience layer.

Sure. So, you know, generative AI, so the ability to generate text or images, video, 3 d, 3 d objects, games, code. The AI generative, we would define as, like, the the AI to create. And the JetGPT, like, putting a prompt window on the front end of that made that accessible really for anybody. And we you've got text to speech, voice to speech, like voice interactions, but it it's really AI that's helping us create objects and elements.

So from a brand and a marketing standpoint, it's helping to have more, make content that's more relevant, more personalized, etcetera, but it's not it didn't really dramatically affect the interface layer. Right? You still you still have a person coming to a web page, and the experience isn't necessarily all that different. This next era, AI will be charge supercharging that experience, making it much more dynamic. It could be that there's a chatbot interface.

It could be that it's looking at, and getting inputs of how you're browsing the screen, where you're pausing, if you have something like an angry click, that we can then trigger off of those things

Yep.

In essentially in real time. So you're still a person coming to the website in that sort of scenario, but the experience is much more tuned, much, much more dynamic. You know, we would say, like, you heard the word real time a lot around CES this year, and I think that the ability for AI to, to dramatically exchange change how dynamic that experience layer is, you you that's what we're starting to see at the beginnings of this year.

Were there any specific standout examples or, you know, particular, you know, wow moments in those those areas?

I'll give an example that was kind of an accessibility tech. If you're visually impaired, the, one of the devices, your interface to the world was haptics and a white stick that you would tap around you to try to make sure that you didn't trip over anything. Right? And what we're moving toward, there was a company that had a product called Glide, and it's essentially, you know, a sensor enabled walking stick. So had wheels, had sensors at the bottom, haptic and pull to help identify and navigate a person.

And then at the top, it had a camera that would identify and read the room. Right? So you're using computer vision, it's breaking down the world around you, but it had a conversational interface on top of that. So, I didn't fully test this, but in talking with, with the creators of that, they said, you know, if you're if you're standing even in a crowded environment like Eureka Park in CES, that you could say, help me find the bathroom. And with the camera, it would actually help to kind of pull and navigate you around until it identified the signage and then pulled you into the right space.

Or in that, in theory, you could you could say, help take me to this booth number, and it could navigate you to that spot. So it's both the combination of you're starting to see the combination of technologies, and then that AI experience layer that makes it, you know, simple, makes it conversational to help you, help you solve.

Right? Wild. What's so, so crazy to think that how many years has has this technology been in existence, but the final ways to be able to not only create the application, but but scale it to a place where it can be be used and then solving real true human problems. And and one thing that we talked about, again, pre show, we saw AI, and you said you saw AI taking physical form through robotics this year. What struck, you about this evolution, particularly in terms of human interaction and emotional connection?

You know, as I said, like, robots have been around for a bit. I think you're starting to see them in all shapes and sizes Mhmm. And, accelerating, quickly in terms of, how well, you know, one, they can navigate the world around them, how well things like computer vision and models can help them, understand contextually the space. And then the, you know, that sort of conversational layer that allows us to interact with them in much more, let's call it human ways, and that real time thing. The it, you know, it it wasn't many years ago you would it was sort of a novelty.

You would you could have a conversation with a robot, but it was, like, super awkward. Yes. You'd have to wait. He'd say something, and you could see it pause and process, and then it would say something in a very, like, robotic, quote, unquote, way. You know, it's just stilted conversation that comes back through, and your expectation of of how that conversation would go would be very low.

You know, the that layer is changing fast. And I think, you know, we're we're moving into better spatial understanding, spatial computing. I think that the robotics targeted with things like warehouse automation and those types of things have been a starting point in from a b to b standpoint. But, there are robots that will navigate your home. There's a robot vacuum cleaner that would pick up a sock and had a have the robotic arm, but they really, like, pick it up and throw it over.

So, but, you know, so we're we're starting to see the beginnings of, robot robots that are that are useful.

So what did you observe about how the tech is is being designed? I mean, you you give the example of, well, there needs to be a physical arm to pick up the socks so that, it doesn't get sucked into the wheels. I mean, that may be one example, but what else did you observe about how they're being designed to address the emotional side of the house?

Yeah. I mean, in, there were a ton of robots that were really designed for companionship. I don't know if that's the right word. There's a robot dog that was, built for people with dementia that would help help comfort them, help kind of put them at ease, reduce anxiety. There were, robot planters that would bring a plant to life that as you pet and interact, like, pet and interact with the plant or tickle it, it would laugh.

It

would No kidding.

It could tell you when it needs water. So, you know, that that ability to sort of give everything a personality of sorts and help you feel more connected, less alone, was definitely everywhere. Lots of lots of cute looking robots. Even like Samsung has had Bally for a number of years. Bally, I don't know not sure which way they pronounce that.

But, they're like, they talked about that actually being commercially available as we start to roll out this year.

Let's talk practical applications, and you also kind of, you know, dove in a little bit to accessibility, and how AI is making smart homes smarter. You you off the top, we're talking about how versus just kind of existing as a technology as things are are now becoming more embedded with these things. What developments stood out to you this year?

I think we're seeing the the the beginnings of, some of some of these combinations of technologies. If you look at something like, Samsung and their AI family hub, it's, you know, designed to make the refrigerator smarter and make it the the central part of your home again. You used to, like, use magnets and put pictures up or put calendars up and that type of thing. Now there's a screen on the front of that that refrigerator, and you can still aggregate photos, you could display the family calendar, you could, have a shared, grocery list and things you want. And then it has cameras on the inside as well.

So the the system has an understanding of what's there. It can tell you when the milk's gonna expire. You can say, hey, what what should I make for dinner tonight? I think the kids are in the mood for this type of thing, and it can help suggest different recipes and so on. So I think that's, it's the beginning of what will start to happen on a larger scale, where we have cameras, sensors, and better data integrated throughout the home.

You know, recipe wise, like, the fridge, fridge has part of the ingredients, but doesn't have all the stuff in the pantry or your spice cabinet Right. Or some of the, you know, some of the other parts of your kitchen. So, I think as we're you can start to see where the things are headed. And I like to use the phrase like prototypes of the future. Your kitchen should have all of that knowledge.

You should be able to know and understand all the things that are on your shelf when things are going bad. You know, it should warn you that those bananas, it's probably time to throw it out before they melt and drip all over your shelf. Right? Like, that type of thing is not not far away, and all the hardware is there. Mhmm.

AI can power the software layer, I think, in a much more, interactive way. But, right now, what I think we're seeing is the people that are owning a particular device or appliance, like, that one thing is getting smarter better. What's coming is, knitting together all the datasets and providing sort of that interface or application layer that that allows you to manage the full environment, not just the one thing.

I think back to something you said sparked a thought about how as marketers and CX pros who often are serving, brands and supporting brands and, those that are listening that are working for a particular brand or company. I I I liken what you said to how, things began to develop as Apple's iPhone, came to market. It was a brilliant device, had lots of great new technology. But the real challenge for people in our industry was, okay. Well, how how can I apply that technology and make my brand, you know, relevant to my customer base based on this new technology that's at my fingertips?

And the smart fridge or Smart Kitchen, frankly, you you were mentioning reminds me of things like if I'm in the the grocery industry or if I'm maybe a particular food item, like, those there's nothing would be stopping us if it's if the data is there and the connection's there. Not only to remind you that you're out of food or give you recipe ideas, but then say, hey. You can actually order that right now. Do you want me to order it for you and then send it to your door? Yes.

And through a Kroger or a Publix or whatever, you could pull that off. I am fascinated to hear and see, and this is not really a question, more just an observation, how those technologies become, more ingrained with our everyday brands and and how brands

Agree.

Start to show up. I think it's gonna be fascinating.

Yeah. And I totally agree with you. I feel like the you know, there are, like, smart home alliances or platforms like Matter that are designed to connect the let's call it the connected devices, the IoT things that are in your home and allow you to have one interface there. But, you know, I I think companies are gonna have to think about, what other APIs, what other ecosystems they wanna connect into that are the natural extensions from that. So your grocery example is great.

That's, you shouldn't you shouldn't have to take the list and then retype it in another spot. Totally. Let's reduce the friction. Let's make sure that it's easy to think about, what you might display. And the same is the reverse is also true.

Like, if you wanna get a recipe from, whatever, Campbell Soup or this particular brand that's coming in from your fridge, like, the they they should could open could and should open up those types of environments the same way that when Apple opened up the App Store, you had the ability to choose, like, what types of companies and brands do you wanna put in that space? Mhmm. As devices get smarter, screen starts to go everywhere, I think companies are gonna need to start to make that type of choice.

Or you could reconnect neighborhoods by having the smart fridges know what's in your neighbor's fridge and be able to say, hey. I'm out of eggs. Who has eggs? And, no. I know this person has eggs.

Make sure you're giving me your eggs. I think it's it's fascinating, man. It's gonna be awesome. You you touched on something earlier that I think may have more to it, and it was a relation to the, the example of somebody being guided who who may not have the the best site or has a site impairment of some kind to be able to guide them, you know, both haptically, but audio through a crowded room to the bathroom. You were talking about that as an example, but it were there additional examples in that health and innovation accessibility space that excited you?

Health, wellness, digital technologies. Like, there's, there's there are always amazing technologies that are there. I have an eye issue, so I'm always, like, very interested in seeing, like, where where some of vision tech going and, how are you solving vision problems for people that have, like, macular degeneration or or have issues with, with certain portions of their vision? I did see some tech that was a little bit related to that. I tested it, but, didn't it was one of those things that didn't seem quite there yet.

It was still a little bit disorienting, I would say more than fully solving the problem. The in the real time category, there was a first, thermometer, is it was I think the phrase that they were trying to invent, which was, essentially saliva based real time hormone testing. So you could order a kit, put a put this sort of strip in your mouth for a couple of minutes and then pull it through and then take a picture of it with your phone using their application. And it would tell you it would measure for everybody, hormone related to stress. And then, this initial wave was measuring particular female hormones designed to track things like fertility or to track, hormones as as women are going through menopause that would help them understand their patterns, could make recommendations around, like, on the stress side, do you need to eat or sleep less?

And on the hormone side, would give you much better markers to track in detail so that you could manage, manage things more, more closely with your docs.

It's wild. Yep. That's absolutely crazy. There's an interesting trend, and I think we saw it at scale this year with local AI models and personal devices. Obviously, within WPP and VML, we're working through, you know, creating apps to to leverage our AI tools internally.

And then, obviously, the, you know, more, obvious examples where Apple and Google are embedding AI into, the the phones that we we buy. How might this shift start to or continue to impact users' privacy and sustainability? Because that seems to be another really interesting, and I would assume, rapidly emerging trend that we're gonna have to think about as marketers.

With a lot of the, I would describe as sort of this early stage exploration that that we're doing today, we're plugging into these large language models and using a high amount of compute to try to get to a dad joke or whatever whatever the use case is.

Get out of my head.

Clearly, clearly, you'd see, like, the odd things I'd sometimes use models for. Anyway, but and typically, those those interactions are happening through API calls and connections. So the the compute and the models are really running in different places. When you hear phrases like AI PC or AI at the edge or, AI AI enabling chips that allow models to run on your local machine. You're sort of reversing that.

Right? So instead of your data going elsewhere, you're able to keep your data local and then have the models run-in that environment. Mhmm. So and I think, you know, in those cases, typically, will there'll be models that are designed for a particular use case. So I doubt not sure there'll be a model for dad jokes.

Maybe there will. But there may be models for locally running the, stress recommendations. Right? So, in that in that particular example or models that are helping to solve for, very particular problems or use cases that they'll be smaller, better, more finely tuned for that particular thing. So the the amount of compute, the amount of energy that it takes to run that, and the user control and safety in terms of your dataset will really start to improve.

So, know, I would use a phrase like small will be the new big. Mhmm. Large language models help to enable this sort of bright summer of AI, but I think you'll start to see, the knitting together of many different types of AI applications and agents, that will work together to solve the problem that the a person is looking for in a small, a way and specific a way as it can.

So we think about kind of in that same vein and, you know, ethics. I talked to Karen Boswell, an episode or 2 ago about kinda that that general theme. Do you see any, like, examples of of how AI or any other technology for that matter while you were out there? Was that kinda tech for good?

Yeah. I mean, I think on the on the privacy side, not not yet. I the our our controls are still pretty, it's like a bad a very basic on off switch.

Mhmm.

I can I can ask a company, like, tell me all the information you have on me, and I'd say, go erase it? But, I I do think, especially in scenarios like the connected home, smart home, categories like health, the concept of, contextually understanding what interaction needs to happen and what portions of your dataset you wanna give permission to a doctor or to whatever for that particular, that particular use case. I I do think AI will make that, will solve that problem because it it is a highly complex one. But, we're not I don't think we're quite there yet. There there was amazing tech for like, CS has done a lot to try to, have have bring that forward as part of part of the show.

A couple of the interesting things. One of the interesting things I remember seeing was something called Cumulus. So it was a device that pulled water from the air, essentially the humidity in the air, and could even do it in, you know, desert environments. So think about solving for that problem of, access to clean water in in certain parts of the globe. You this device, it was actually a little bit bigger.

It was caught up in customs when I went through the first time, but, it a very large device that could output anywhere from, like, 30 to even close to 70 or 80 liters per day. Wow. And could be connected to solar to help power that. But, like, that sort of air, water from air type tech, there's a different company that was doing that on a small scale for connected to a coffee machine. So if you wanted to have wanted to lower the amount of water that you're you're having to use for your cup of coffee in the morning.

Like, that that type of tech will start to get integrated on a smaller scale just into into our into our homes.

It's wild. Let's shift a bit, before we run out of time on the developments and, implications for for business and consumer relationships. Let's start with how do you see some of these advances affecting the ways brands can connect with with customers?

So we talked about the waves, you know, the generative wave, the AI moving into this experience era. And I think that's the that is very much the now. I think all brands have an opportunity to start to look at, how and where can they better AI enable the experiences that and the interactions that happen when they get in their car, when they come to your website, when they're calling customer service. You can think about all the different places where, you can reduce friction or increase ease and increase joy. Mhmm.

Those, I think I think there's an opportunity for all companies to begin to reexamine that. And then when if you've heard the phrase, agentic AI, so that that's the next wave that's that's coming. So if you think about the experience layers, the now, agentic will be the next, and you will have we'll have an AI agent that will help you plan your vacation. So instead of going to search, going to a bunch of websites and making your own list, you'll have an agent that's assisting you in doing that discovery. In the ins the a your agent will say, do you want me to show you these options on a map?

Would you like to see photos of the different hotels or resorts? Or, I've narrowed it down to these Airbnbs or VRBOs. Would you like to get a virtual tour? And it's doing the work for you. The implication of that from a brand standpoint is, similar to, like, the first era of the SEO, when SEO came about, like, we had to figure out, like, how the search algorithms work and how we presented brand information in a way that made it accessible to the search algorithms.

As agentic AI starts to come in, we will enter the machine to machine era where, like, the old Hollywood phrase was, have your people talk to my people. Yeah. In this agentic AI era, it will be our brand agents talking to audience agents, to figure out what your that person's looking for, and then determine what parts of the dataset you want to provide to help solve that problem. And I think we'll also have to think about the concept of a brand API.

Mhmm.

Like, what data are you willing to extend? In some cases, you'd what what what imagery, some of the basic stuff, you might you might say you'll extend for free and make that available. There might be, like, hey, we have this amazing three d experience if your person would like to see how how well their car their kids will fit in the back seat of that car. But you need to come to our place for that. Or you might say, we're willing to to show you pricing or willing to show you our promotions, but we need you to opt in.

We need to understand who this person is. I think those types of interactions and scenarios will, will start to refine. So, like, brand agents, and brand APIs will be the sort of future thing to keep an eye on.

So you you were pulling on a thread that I know Heather Fiziac and I who's, real like, at ground 0 of all things, search intelligence. We kinda went down that road, in a couple episodes ago if you wanna go back and listen to anybody who's listening to to the show now, there's an interesting impact on brands and content creation, not just like how the content is actually written and put onto the site, the metatags, and all the back end data. But there's there is this interesting dynamic with what you were mentioning around, you know, whether it's Gen AI, you know, relevant content building. There is something to be said about brands creating better versus more content, which has always been like, well, what does better mean? Do you see a seismic shift on the horizon about how brands have to actually create the content, not just experiences, but the content that underpin them in order to not just be visible, but be useful in this new world that's maybe getting away from just keywords and pages to more experiential and to your point, agent agent led product and brand brand, visibility.

Yeah. I mean, so, arguably, we're just at the beginning of this generative era.

Mhmm.

Right? So image, generative images, now commercially saved, videos, just behind. But we're still we're still kind of at the early point of how much how much generated, generative content is out there now. But, I'll actually move away from the search engines and look at it more from the audience side, which is like as people, we like right now, you have access to everything everywhere all at once. You can listen to any music from any catalog, from any era, at the touch of a keystroke or a punch to your phone, same in terms of content and movies.

And so so if you think about the context of we're at the beginning of this exponential wave of how easy it is to create, and we're but our audience is already overwhelmed. The implication means, the the stuff that our audiences will pay attention to is the stuff that won't make them feel, that's relevant to them, that solves a problem, that makes them laugh or makes them cry or or makes them happy. Right? Like the, the the rise of this generative era will actually increase the importance of, how relevant we need to be, how personalized in some respects, but it it can't just be personal for the sake of of how we think, what we think might be personal to that person. I think, it will give us an ability to really hone in to understand, like, well, what actually matters to them, and how do we deliver those things and and, in ways that that impact and really draw them closer.

We're just now less than 12 months away from you going back to CES to see what happens next year. As you think back to this year's trip to Vegas, what developments do you think are gonna have the most significant impact on our industry maybe over the next couple or or three significant impact on our industry maybe over the next couple or or 3 years?

On our industry, specifically?

Mhmm. Yes.

Yep. Yeah, I I think I think there's a massive opportunity to to, that that rise in the experience, like, to to really, AI enable, what how how you walk through the store, how you interact with a doctor, how how you can better understand, what the heck they're saying to you when you're having a conversation. Or to for, like, you to be there when, afterward, if you have an elderly parent that had a meeting with a doctor and then you wanna have you wanna get a distilled version of that later. Like, the all of that type of those types of experiences are very, very possible technically. And they're but they're right at our fingertips from a brand experience, from standpoint.

So, like, what what can we create today, to me, that that will that will really be useful or really be powerful in making people more at ease or making them comfortable, improving their happiness, improving how how well they use your product. Like, all of those things, I think we have an opportunity to to, to rethink. So when we talk about the experience layer, I think, it isn't just like, do you own the car experience? It could it could be, like, how do you extend from what how people use your product and what they use it for? And what more could you do?

That is we have superpowers at our fingertips today. So I think that's the largest takeaway.

I think that's fascinating when you when you kinda let us down that road with machine to machine. If if these all can connect and talk to each other, what other amazing things could be at our fingertips if, you know, to mention again, these are 2 unrelated things, but maybe not that unrelated. Your car talking to your fridge or your lights or anything. I mean, that that technology is just in its its early early days, first couple of innings of it, but you're right. There's there's a lot to unpack there.

And, obviously, as a marketer ourselves or both of us kind of in the space, the questions that I get a lot are, how do we stay ahead of all this? How do we maintain authentic human connections, but also keep ourselves up to speed? I mean, you do a great job at at VML, like, helping spearhead and give give our teams, the the tools and the resources to learn. But, you know, marketing is a full time job in itself, yet you're also kinda learning new technology. What would advice would you give to to us and our industry on on staying ahead of all this?

It is challenging. And because the market is moving at such a high rate of speed, I think the important thing is just to stay aware, stay curious, stay hungry. You know what I mean? Like, keep your eyes open for the things that spark. And periodically, like, get out of your bubble, get out of the day to day of the the content that you're making and the channels that you're delivering in now to ask yourself, like, well, what else could could we do?

And just start to block a little bit of of time, a little bit of dollars to explore, like, what might be. And just like at CES, like, some of that stuff, it may be the right idea wrong time. Maybe the tech isn't quite there. But, I think going through, like, staying curious and trying to trying to continue to explore at least the what's getting the headlines, what's what are some of the major things that are that are taking place in emerging technologies, and beginning to explore a little bit, like, how does it work with my brand? Or how does it work?

How how are are the people, the audiences that I'm trying to reach changing in terms of their media behavior, in terms of the devices they're they're interacting with? And what does that mean in terms of opportunities for my brand to show up in new ways, unexpected ways. Right? So, like, brands that find breakthrough experiences or interactions in new channels, typically get big headlines. Sometimes you win awards and hardware.

Like, there there's value to be found, I think, in just doing a little bit of exploration to find, things that have never been done before.

So the obligatory bonus question at the end, and it may be a tough one to answer because you, I'm sure, absorbed a lot. Your head must have been wanting to explode by the end of the week. If you had to pick one thing from CES this year that marketers should be paying attention to right now, what would it be and why?

You know what? I'll stay in that tech for good category. K. I think, I think there's a a massive opportunity for, when you because when you say the word accessibility, I think for a lot of marketers, they're aiming for the minimum legal requirements. Mhmm.

How do I make sure that we have metadata to so readers are there. And I think they're the tech is there today to start to do things that are breakthrough that give your brand again, like, outsized credit for being human and just making letting everybody buy your stuff in easy ways or use your product in easy ways. Right? So I think there's, there's outsized value, to be found there, and it's just the right thing to do. So why why shouldn't we all be exploring how to how to make things easier, better for everybody?

And typically, because you're doing some of that experimentation at the edge to solve for sometimes the hardest use cases, what you'll find is you'll you might be able to improve or find discoveries that are actually valuable for everybody. So I think, doing some exploration on accessibility and emerging tech enabled accessibility is I think, a lot of our clients would find some really rich territories and new solutions.

Brian, I learn so much from you every time we have a chance to sit down. I know our listeners do too. Thank you so much for carving out a few minutes to do this, and we'll talk soon.

Absolutely. Thank you, Nick.

And thanks to you all for listening to Human Centered as well. To learn more about VML CX practice and our approach to the work, check us out online atvml.com. We'd also love to hear your feedback on the show. Give us a rating and offer up your thoughts wherever you listen to your podcasts, including Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon, and more. Have a topic idea or wanna drop us a line, you can connect with me on x@nickbrunker, or shoot us an email.

The address is humancentered@vml.com. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.