Human Centered

Hi everyone and welcome to Human Centered I'm Nick.
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Brunker, a group director of experience strategy.
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At VML Wynn.
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R and your.
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Host for the show. Thanks for giving us a listen.
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As CX professionals, we're constantly seeking innovative ways to enhance our customers experience. However, it's equally important to turn our attention inward and focus on building a thriving work environment that empowers employees.
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To reach their full potential, our guest today will discuss how leveraging HCD and design thinking can transform employee experiences, leading to a more engaged, motivated and creative workforce that ultimately drives.
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That ultimately drives organizational success. I'm super excited to have with us, the executive Director of Learning, growth and experiences at BMLY and or Lauren Blandon. Lauren, thanks.
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For being with us. Welcome.
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Hi nick. Thank you. Really happy to be here.
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Yes. And before we get going, I'd love to hear and have you share to to our listeners a bit more about your role at VML and your background here.
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Yeah, sure. So I actually joined our big happy network about over seven years ago. I came in as head of HR for Latin America region for what was then Young and Rubicam. So Wynar and Wonderman, which at the time was sort of being directed by the same leadership team. So that was an interesting time.
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And then about two years ago, got promoted into what I call my sort of my dream role, which was taking and evolving what was a more standard traditional training department and evolving it and leading it into learning growth and experiences. Or as we call it, LGX. And our mission is pretty straightforward. You know, so me and the team.
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Wake up every day to equip our people to do the best work of their career.
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It's so fun and I'm obviously excited because right now is such an interesting time to be in that type of a role, not to mention because of all the hybrid stuff that's going on, we've grown as an agency such leap by leaps and bounds. Obviously the news of VML, you know, the merger between Wonderman Thompson and and VML Y&R.
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What a time to be kind of looking across this large organization and be able to to really drive some change and also ultimately Dr. really great experiences for learning and growth. And one of the things that we talked about before we came on on the the recording here.
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Was your recent trip and we're recording this at the end of November, early December AF U weeks ago for this conference down in Miami called from day one. Tell us more about that. What you spoke about and and what you learned while you?
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Were down there.
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It was a really great time, so I was invited partially to talk about that evolution and and and building the LGX capability. I think a lot of folks in the space are really starting to understand.
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The importance of applying a CX and human centered design lens to to what it is that we do. So if you kind of go back two years ago to when I took on the role, you know as you mentioned our company as it is is always going through some some major improvements and changes. So at the time we were kind of fresh on the heels of the VML Y&R merger and our business was changing so.
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Much I think the the industry as a whole and and just the way that brands interact with consumers and all of that dynamic was changing over the last five years and then we were in the middle of the pandemic. So some major fundamental shifts were taking place. We didn't know quite yet at the time what they were going to be, but we knew something at the core of humanity was kind of was kind of changing so.
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One thing was really clear at the time, which was traditional learning and development was not going to continue to be effective or relevant in sort of this. This new world order. So my mission became really focused on three main things with with the department, with the function, one was.
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Sort of relevance. So what was the purpose of what we were building, right? Applying a lot more intention into the programming and things that we were looking to do.
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I think a lot.
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Of functions the world around it and around us evolves, and sometimes we don't.
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Revisit the core of.
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Why are we here? What is the the the purpose of these core processes and things that we've been doing for years and years and years?
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You know career paths, which I always argue are are a little bit futile in today's kind of landscape succession planning, 9 boxing, all of these sort of standard things we need to revisit and say what is the purpose and intention and and should this continue.
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To exist, and if so, how? How should it evolve so relevance was the first key thing. The second thing was scale. We were becoming a truly global organization and you know and everything that that entails. So my focus was on globalizing our function and also democratizing learning. How do we get this equitably?
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In the hands and and and get really transparent access and visibility to all of our folks across the globe when it comes to to learning and talent programs, you know is is the intended audience, are they able to equitably access everything that we're creating? So it was relevant scale and the last thing was make it.
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Really cool, right? So.
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Today's, you know, consumers, employees, all of us, humans, we we like really instagrammable bradle moments. That's what we look for and where we go to eat, where we vacation. So how can we just, you know, the teams sort of mantra has become, let's make cool ****, right. We just really want to make some some really memorable things. And so to do that we also have to fundamentally change.
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How we operate as a team so we change team structure, we introduce new capabilities to really focused on more of a CX lens. And what we do, we changed how we ideate and create and also how we engage with leaders across.
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The business.
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And this is.
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Just like you mentioned you were hitting on what a crazy time to be able to adapt all these things and be able to start leaning into the things that really their employees, not just here. But I think anybody listening that's in in a similar area, what's going to make people tick, what's going to make people feel like they've got the, the.
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Adequate development that they need, they feel connected, and that they're learning and growing. And I think it's a great segue into what.
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We kind of want to talk about today at at macro, which is for somebody who's listening to the show, who's in CX. Obviously, we tend to be very heavily focused, as I mentioned in the intro about alright, what is our client or what is our end consumer or customers experience and a lot of times and the statistics bear it out that you know.
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The customer experience success is usually tied somewhat very tightly to how good is the employee experience and how well are they being served by the organization at large. And I think I was looking through some of the research millennials who obviously are in a prime leadership position right now in terms of age.
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42% of them believe that they're not receiving adequate leadership dev opportunities. A Gallup poll recently found that and then Deloitte was talking about the feeling of learning something new. 39%, they say of employees strongly agreed that they have learned something new in the past 30 days that they can apply to their jobs. And that's not that's not a great number, ultimately.
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And you think about people that are in your role or people that are in similar roles listening to the show, you know, those are those are daunting. How do you tackle those sorts of things and what would you see as potentially the cause of some of those symptoms that that provide the the data we just talked about?
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So I'll point to something really interesting, just to solidify the importance of learning in business outcomes and just ultimate success, right. So when we look internally across the VM, LY NR specifically and this is reflected too and just kind of market data. So we you know, we just got the results of our latest engagement survey and we we measured things like perceptions and.
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Around inclusion and belonging around well-being around relationship with manager compensation, all sorts of things, right. And then we tie that back to ultimate engagement. So markers like are you proud to work here, would you recommend this place to your friends and family? Do you have intentions to stay or leave, right? So those are sort of the markers of someone that's really engaged.
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Really proud. I'd recommend this place and I and I have no one, you know, intention to.
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To leave. When we looked at.
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What? Hide back the the strongest 2 and engaged you know, those that were really highly engaged. It was opportunity for development and growth. It beat out relationship with manager. It beat out inclusion and belonging. It beat out compensation. So it's a really key factor for us and we see that learning you know growth and and development plays in that top three.
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You know, if you look at similar sort of reports and and research just in general, right?
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Across the workforce, we also see in our exit data when we ask folks why did you join VML in our in the 1st place. They said for career growth and development. When we ask what's the reason you're leaving? Well, because I'm seeking out more career growth and development. So time and time again it's a leading factor in in the degree to which people are going to engage and stay and recommend in all of these key things. So.
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It's important. I mean it's it's clear that it's important that it needs to be invested in and that it directly leads to, you know peoples, you know, people doing the best work and serving our our client.
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Now, that said, what are we going to do about it? This is where.
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I start to depart.
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A little bit from traditional kind of HR mindset. I think in that I really believe that it needs to be a two way St. I think that managers and organizations do have the responsibility to support you know their teams growth and development.
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But I also.
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Think that folks need to step up and drive their career?
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No one is ever going to care about you and your growth and your development more than you. You are your own constant throughout your career. You know you'll change jobs, you'll change managers. You are your own constant. So what we've tried to do and our approach has been.
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You know, yes, let's equip managers. Yes, let's put really cool programs in place. But also how do we get people really inspired and motivated and empowered to drive their own career, right? What can we do so that they feel that it's in their hands and they're not sort of taking this passive arms crossed approach to waiting to be told with their career path is right so forge.
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That that, that path.
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So to do that, you know it goes back to sort of the main goals with the LGX practice around relevance scale, right? So we've done things, you know, democratization of the learning and accessibility of it has been a huge one. You know, have we broken down barriers so that people see what opportunities are available can reach it, right if they.
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You know, feel it's meaningful for them. So we've done that part and then we say, OK, now we've built the house, here's the key like go for it, get in there and play around and find out, you know what you can do, connect with people and also introducing them to all the different ways that that you can learn.
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You know, when I look at the stat that you just mentioned from Deloitte that you know 61% of folks are not really feeling that they've learned something in the last 30 days, I'd almost flipped the question and and asked those folks, you know, surely in the last 30 days, you've consumed numerous hours of content on TikTok and on.
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Netflix and all these other places.
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And you're telling me that in those 30 days?
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You didn't pick up.
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One little nugget that you could apply to your job right, like we need to be a little bit more intentional on what we're I think consuming, but also realize that a lot of those things are learning. You know I learned stuff on LinkedIn and and and Instagram every day that.
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I can I.
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Say ohh, that really applies to to my work.
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So showing people and expanding their perception of of what learning is I think is really important. But you know, on on Tuesday, my team and I were launching a program that we built called Drive your career, really aimed at doing this right. How do we help folks navigate this complex, beautiful family that.
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Is that will soon be VML, right? With all these opportunities, all these connections, we help people really define their vision to find goals, to get there, identify what champions they have in their corner and then really, you know, they leave really excited to to drive their own career within within.
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What I think is really exciting about not just that latest news on what's going on inside our walls at VML is is the fact that everything you said and most of the actual activities that you you hit on asking about general sentiment and your likelihood to recommend these are all the same form factors that we would.
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Provide our clients or people that we're working with. If you're somebody who's on the client side, the customers you're asking, these are the same muscles, in essence that you're you're going to be using in your CX and HCD, which is exactly what what this episode is about. The the idea that.
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It's just as important to flex those muscles internally in addition to externally, and I think it's fascinating that that we're doing it in that way and you're you're kind of leading the charge.
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With LGX, when we we get into this idea that you know it is a relationship, your work life balance, you know the the.
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Fuzzy buzzwords of and. I know this is really a sticking point for a lot of people. Don't call it family or the relationship with your managers or like they need to be professional obviously, but.
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That is just over the years. It's been really interesting to dive into the comparison between the employer, employee, relationship manager and direct report relationships and be able to have the the necessary reciprocity, but also like realize that it's still a relationship. It's just got.
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Different levers to pull at certain times.
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So talk about.
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The psychology of work and how you have applied that in in LGX and and all the work that you've done, even previous to being with VML.
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Yeah, sure. And you know, you really nailed it when you said, you know what?
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We do as.
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Marketers, right. And the way that we look at consumer, you know affinity and loyalty and behavior and all of these things, it's the same. I mean, sometimes when I look at our, you know, client decks and our business strategy decks. And I'm like if we just swap out the word, you know, consumer or brand for employee.
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Employer. It's the same concepts that we're that we're looking at. So you know I by trade them and organizational psychologist, right, so I can geek.
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Out on just the the.
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The way of work, the psychology of work, the you know, I'm halfway through a book on the history of work. I'm just, you know, always surrounding myself with it. I really.
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Love it, but you know, through everything it it boils down to the same kind of human fundamentals right across the board. And reciprocity has just always been core and central to all human relationships. I mean, in in every way with your communities, with your romantic partners, with your friends and family, and yes, with your, with your employer.
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Now what? What that exchange is based on will change over time, right? But if you go back?
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To the the early.
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Just you know, idea of work, hunter gatherer right. Tribes way. You know, eons ago it was, you know, we all have these small little communities. We do our part to hunt and gather food. And then we exchange. Right. And.
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That was the.
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The the reciprocity and that no matter what evolution.
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Work has gone through what it's looked like. It always boils down to this concept of an exchange, some sort of value exchange, some sort of trust exchange.
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So I think that fundamentally what it's based on today that that contract is starting to look different, but the that idea of reciprocity is still and will always be there.
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Do you think that and and maybe just expand upon the idea of how those expectations and the, the the way those those relationships are built change as we've evolved massively in the last handful of years in the role of hybrid work and how that's changing the game? And and I think we've all felt this.
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You know John Cook's talked about it, Mark Reed's talked about it across the board, like being with people is is crucial, like humans are by nature just connected beings. And so wanting to to try to drive connection in this environment where we all especially at as a company of this size for VL, Y&R and B ML.
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It's hard to be able to drive that culture to drive learning to drive these things that are going to create great experiences when when you are scattered and you aren't working with the same, you know, local community like you used to in the in the ways that I think you were expecting back in, you know, 20/20/18 or 2019 before the pandemic.
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Talk to me at large about what you've seen and how you're adapting to this new role of the hybrid workplace in the relationship and the psychology of work.
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Yeah. So you know, I think and a quick disclaimer. So I think what I'm about to describe really only applies to sort of industrialized, maybe Western ways of work, right. I think that we often forget that these things and these concepts don't apply still to a large part of of the the globe where you know, there's certain pockets of the population where if you were to approach them and say that.
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You know, fulfillment or you know, self actualization as an expectation. You have out of out of your work they look at you like like you are nuts. Right. So I just kind of want to preface with this is a, you know, very specific to this segment of our population.
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But you know, if you look at the evolution, let's talk about just sort of like the the industrialization era, right forward and the evolution that, that exchange, the, the employee employer exchange has has taken in that time.
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It's sort of.
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Followed like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right. So if you go for, you know, we start out and it.
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Was a time where.
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I just wanted a decent wage, right, a livable wage and safe working conditions. Right. And and maybe even stability, something that I can count on that I know when I go tomorrow, I'll still have a job and I can feed my family like it was just very basic. That's what I expected of my employer. And if they provided that to me.
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Me. I was good right in the case that I didn't feel there was a safe working condition, maybe then we saw strikes and and boycotts and that kind of thing cause that was really at the core of of that relationship. Then over time, over the decades, we started to see that evolve a little bit more into camaraderie and connection started to to become a little bit more of a thing. And that's when we started.
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Seeing organizations introducing things like the the holiday party right and and water cooler talk right these moments to connect with your with your fellow colleagues, right? And coworkers that started to kind of become more of an important.
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Expectation in that exchange, then, millennials came around and started questioning, well, how does my job fulfill me? Does it how do they connect?
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With my purpose.
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Right, this is.
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When organizational values started to be defined and and printed on posters or you know around the office, because we really wanted to feel that we were serving a greater good and there was this like.
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Your thing that you could be a part of, right? And I think that just before the pandemic, we might have been on the tail end of that. And then what happened was it triggered this new aha moment across folks that were, you know, we, we almost had this reset where we detached, we had a moment of reckoning, right. As a population, we said wait.
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Does all of that matter? I think really what I want is does my job, you know, does it need to fulfill me or can I get that fulfillment from other things from my family and my hobbies and my side hustles, right. And so then we started looking at our employer with an expectation of listen, you know, I I still expect a a good wage.
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I think that's always going to be an expectation, but also give me the autonomy and the flexibility and the space to live my.
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Life to pursue my hobbies. Right. So now you know, I think a lot of organizations are still coming from the space of the holiday party and the pizza party and employees are saying keep it right. If I'm gonna spend 2 hours at a holiday party, it's going to.
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Be with my.
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Friends, right. Like, give me the space and flexibility to pursue me and live my best life, right? We hear that.
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Live your best life. So I think that's where things are really starting.
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To go a lot more emphasis on that autonomy, flexibility, and even mental health. Right. A lot of you know, folks are really drawing boundaries and setting lines between. Alright, you know, aspiration, corner office, not so cool if it's going to take a toll.
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On my mental.
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Health, so definitely a shift in that regard.
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And you obviously have had the benefit of of being within the walls of the MLP and be able to kind of organize around the principles that we all at at the agency live by. And obviously there's there's been a heavy emphasis understandably on.
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You know, connected brands that that people love and part of that is making sure that we're we're living the HCD values, we're understanding the why behind things. And so I think for for somebody in, in your shoes and really the team that that you built, it's I think probably more natural to be able to apply these sorts of theories.
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Because you're surrounded by a company that lives by that right. And so I'm curious as we kind of get into the next section of our conversation.
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If somebody's listening to this show that either is, you know, in the same role that you're in or a similar role or just kind of musing on this idea of, you know, building growth and experiences for the, for the employees using HCD and CX, talk about the first steps to kind of building the program that you've started to.
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To build and mature over the years, because I think you know, the hardest step is the first.
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One what is somebody?
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Who isn't really where we are yet.
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How do they get there?
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Yeah. So my first step in anything I do and this may just be a kind of a personal thing, but I know it's core to.
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To human.
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Centered design. You need to.
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1st to find the job to be done. I'm. I'm big on that. I'm always getting the team to kind of revisit like let's rewind right, let's zoom out, get out from from the weeds of the the the way that we always go about this and just stop for.
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A moment and say what are we trying to solve?
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More here and I think you know if more folks that are trying to build programs and and no matter.
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Facet or pillar you work in across your organization. Always start from from that right to set a really clear intention on what are we trying to solve for and then design for that, right.
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There there's a.
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Lot of kind of symptoms that we try to get to and cover it up with these Band-Aid solutions without going back and saying maybe we just need to do a better job.
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Designing with intention on exactly what we're trying to solve for, so I think that.
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That is core and key to everything that that we've done and I'll I'll give you an example. So something that a lot of organizations grapple with and something.
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That HR folks.
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Are always trying to to kind of wrap their. Their efforts around is how do we get folks having more frequent development and performance. Conversations like this is something that everyone you know.
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You know, we'll, we'll raise their hand and say yes, I resonate with that in my organization, we struggle with making this happen and.
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A lot of the thought was.
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Well, maybe managers aren't really trained to have these conversations, and there's all this speculation about why these conversations aren't taking place. And for a moment, my team and I, we paused and we said let's let's backtrack and look at what needs to be done. You know, ultimately, people will engage in something if it brings them value, right. So the approach of maybe mandating.
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The review these conversations and I was like that's that's not the real solution, right to me. If we can't force people to do it, if it's not bringing them value in the 1st place, this should be something that folks look forward to, right that that brings them some kind of of value to their life and their career. So then how do we design this process and these conversations to to do that.
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So we went back to the drawing board and we said, what is it that's keeping people from experiencing value in this exchange? Maybe it's an awkward conversation and I don't really know how to break the ice on certain topics. I want to, you know, bring to you to my manager. So what we did was we redesigned sort of a conversation template after uncovering.
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What makes for a meaningful conversation? And we uncovered that it was folks wanted to talk about their work. Where do I stand today? What are am I clear on my goals? You know, what is my performance looking like? I want some clarity on that.
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But then also I want to talk about my career. What's my future like here? What can I do to get better and and evolve and grow? And then the last piece of that was is someone checking in with me on a human level, right. I I really want someone to check in and and make sure that I feel that I belong, that I have voice, that I feel respected, that my work life balance is OK.
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Those three things is what makes for meaningful conversation is what we uncovered. So then we developed a really great kind of template that folks could use to almost break the ice on because some of these topics could be really hard to broach with with your manager depending on the relationship, right? So really just down to.
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Earth conversation starters to talk about performance in a non kind of threatening way to talk about your your development and and expand your thought on development to include things like job rotation or shadowing right? Not just being sent to a conference right? So thinking about the what we call the four's of learning.
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Right.
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And then finally, how do I break the ice on expressing to my boss that maybe I'm having a hard time in my personal life and that's affecting my work, or that I don't really feel like the team has has brought me in on conversation and I feel excluded. How do I break the?
00:27:04 Speaker 2
On that. So we've done that. And what happened, you know, because we went back to the job to be done, how do we create value and then designed for that, we saw a huge increase year over year on the amount of folks that were having conversations and the amount of folks that reported that they felt their manager supported and cared about their development in peoples.
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We did a survey after the last. Our last check in and folks saying that actually this really did help me feel more prepared for this conversation. I mean, positive marks all all across. So you know, of course this isn't, you know, rocket science what we did. But I think it it just it was driven with a lot of intention and that's where I would recommend that folks focus.
00:27:42 Speaker 1
Yeah. And I think the the other challenge that that I've seen and found is that especially in an industry that like ours where you know it's it's billable hours and you know projects and you know scopes that that are you know retainer based versus somebody who is on the client side where they know they have their roles and it's it's a very client.
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Client based business with customers that are driving the.
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How do you make the time or how do you give the employees, especially if even if you're not in our agency or you're not necessarily in advertising but listening to you know the show from a CX lens?
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How how do you intentionally find ways to make space for these things when?
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Every day it's got to get done. Got to get client work done or got to get this next project through the door so I can get it to my senior leaders, like knowing how important it is and how you've laid it out and how you know, even in our walls, you've made the, the the programming available.
00:28:41 Speaker 1
How do you make the space for people to not only feel like it's valuable, but also have the time and the bandwidth to go engage with these experiences so they can get what you want to have them get out of it?
00:28:53 Speaker 2
It's such a real obstacle, especially in a client facing model and and billable, you know, time and all of that. And I think there's a few things that that you can do and that we have done. So one is.
00:29:06 Speaker 2
Sort of the you know the most obvious, which is let's make learning just more accessible, shorter, quick snippets, right? Tick tock style, you know, 32nd overviews. Incorporate learning more in the in the actual flow of work versus the separate thing that runs.
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Parallel to work so.
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All of those things and making learning just more accessible and quick, right?
00:29:26 Speaker 2
I think that's that's the first thing to be done. The 2nd is.
00:29:31 Speaker 2
I think leadership and you know managers at every level.
00:29:35 Speaker 2
Understanding the importance and the long term ROI and protecting time to learn right, because sometimes it's really easy to get caught up in the day-to-day rush and putting out fires constantly. But it's like all things sometimes or many times you get further. If you were to just pause for 5 minutes right, set yourself up for success.
00:29:55 Speaker 2
And then you really operate at such an accelerated rate versus if you never took that pause and you're just scrambling and scrambling, right? So if we were to just collectively pause with intention and protect space to learn, become better masters of our craft, to become better connect.
00:30:10 Speaker 2
That did, yes, it sets you back those. You know that 30 minutes for for that week that you took time to have a workshop? Maybe. But then it accelerated the pace of work. The following week. You know, double so, you know, I think that we have to just recognize that sometimes we do ourself A disservice, you know, being busy feels good.
00:30:30 Speaker 2
Right. And sometimes pausing you're you're wracked with guilt. And no, we're not. We're not being productive. But but it's actually counterproductive some, you know, many times to not stop and and create those moments. So I think good leaders recognize that and they do, you know find moments to to pause and then lastly we've been looking at moments of OK you know if if.
00:30:49 Speaker 2
We feel that we're letting down our clients or or maybe you know, delaying work because of learning activity and these kinds of things. How do we bring the client along with us on the learning, right? Maybe then we'll feel like we have a little bit more permission and space to do this. If we do it in partnership. So we've actually coordinated a few really interactive in person workshops.
00:31:09 Speaker 2
Along when we invited clients, we are looking into doing a.
00:31:14 Speaker 2
Sort of a global kind of exchange program with with one of our clients down in Peru, so inviting them to the party and clients love that. It solidifies the relationship they get, you know, extra value out of out of what we're doing and and we all learn.
00:31:27 Speaker 1
Together. So lastly, before we we shift gears, the addressing of challenges that that arise and we talked about it a little bit earlier.
00:31:35 Speaker 1
With this culture of teams and zoom meetings where you know even within a team especially and this is I think true for large global organizations like ours.
00:31:45 Speaker 1
You're working day-to-day with people who you're not in the same, you know, sometimes time zone, let alone office. And it makes it challenging to develop these shared experiences, you know, we'll we'll set growth to the side, although in learning and growth are important, the experience of actually building the relationship so they can feel fulfilled with somebody who and I'll just use my case in Cincinnati.
00:32:08 Speaker 1
Working primarily with people that are in New York or in Costa Mesa or in Detroit like.
00:32:14 Speaker 1
If if I'm on those zoom and teams calls all day with those people, how do I and as leaders like yourself and others, how do I help foster that connection locally with people who, in this new world, I might not be actually working on a project with with those folks day-to-day, how do you spark the connection and the culture and the relationship?
00:32:36 Speaker 1
In that environment, as it's changed into more of that than the old days where everybody worked together on the same stuff in the same place.
00:32:44 Speaker 2
It's it's really interesting. I think you know, there's so much debate and it's a pretty much a tug of war in terms of to what degree should people be back in person, you know, to what degree does that actually affect our productivity and our engagement in culture and to what degree does it not? And and folks are really digging their heels, you know.
00:33:04 Speaker 2
In in both directions and, and we'll see who wins out on.
00:33:05 Speaker 1
Right.
00:33:07 Speaker 2
That on that.
00:33:08 Speaker 2
Tug of war at the end of the day.
00:33:09 Speaker 2
Right. You know, I think one thing really can't be argued up until now and maybe technology will evolve later and change this. But I think up until now, it really can't be argued that there is something that happens when you are in person face to face with another human.
00:33:24 Speaker 2
That's that, that.
00:33:25 Speaker 2
Up till now has not been replicated using using technology and we feel that.
00:33:30 Speaker 2
In, in a personal level, you know if you have a best friend, you know, like I do, who lives in ocean away right in in Geneva.
00:33:37 Speaker 2
Or you've tried to maybe have a long distance romantic relationship, or you have family that's far away. You know the strain that that takes. It's just not the same as having, you know, sharing that minutia that that you share when you're in person with someone. So I think that we all have to kind of just accept that. I don't think that's up for debate. Some people try to debate it.
00:33:55 Speaker 1
Right.
00:33:56 Speaker 2
They're really trying to hang on to.
00:33:57 Speaker 2
To work from from home.
00:33:59 Speaker 2
But I you know, I think that we all have to accept that that's just the truth. Right. And and and the analogy I like to paint for folks is.
00:34:05 Speaker 2
You know, there's a reason that when we go to a restaurant or a nightclub, the presence of other people, right? So I don't know if you've ever gone to a restaurant, maybe it's really early, you're hungry. So you go early and you're the only person or, you know, you and your partner. The only people in the restaurant. And it's weird, right? There's there isn't an energy. There's something missing and you might not ever interact with those other folks in the room.
00:34:25 Speaker 2
Or speak with them, but their presence introduces a different dynamic.
00:34:29 Speaker 2
Right. So we know that that the physical presence of of people, it just it it introduces something that's different that we haven't been able to do virtually. But I think you can still create you know my team is dispersed. I I have one one person on my team that's here in Miami with me and the rest are in different geographic locations and you know I think and and they've expressed to me that we have a very we've.
00:34:51 Speaker 2
We've constructed a really psychologically safe bubble with our team and that takes a lot of trust and and we've built that virtually right. There's folks on my team that I've never met in persons and and so I know that it can. It can be done.
00:35:06 Speaker 2
And then to your question around, OK then what does that mean for the other folks in the shared space that we don't, you know, interact with anymore, right. We we show up to the office who are plugged in with our virtual teams and then they're just kind of bodies around. I think that's where we as individuals have to take on this in take advantage of those folks and.
00:35:26 Speaker 2
Connect with them right. Set a goal to to to meet a new person or have a 15 minute conversation with a new person every day when you go.
00:35:32 Speaker 2
You know John Cook, our global CEO, said this wonderful thing once and I and I keep repeating it because it's so great. He kind of said, you know, VM Y&R is like this big wonderful buffet with all this amazing gourmet food. Don't leave here. Just making yourself a baloney sandwich. Right. Like, like, what a waste to have this access to this great thing, you know, and you're making yourself a measly.
00:35:54 Speaker 2
Sandwich. So that's what I would tell folks is take advantage of those moments of of sharing space with folks. You know, I see other humans as someone that I can tap knowledge and inspiration for. You know that everyone that you meet knows something you don't know. They're good at something that you're not good at.
00:36:09 Speaker 2
And if we go into the office and leave and don't take advantage, I mean, that's just, that's just leaving, you know, Buffet on the table.
00:36:16 Speaker 1
Well and and it goes back to kind of close it out with.
00:36:18 Speaker 1
What you said?
00:36:19 Speaker 1
Earlier it's it's we're going to give doors to people, they have to take the the the step to walk through as well. And I think that's a really interesting and exciting way to kind of close our conversation on this. I mean what a, what an amazing, amazing challenge you have in front of you and a lot of fun and and certainly appreciate you taking time to chat.
00:36:37 Speaker 1
Well before we wrap.
00:36:39 Speaker 1
Now you're already talking about food and it's making me hungry. And. And you know, this time of year especially, it's very hard to not just binge food while also binging Netflix. Let's be real. But when you're not doing learning and growth experiences, you're actually trying to combat the the lazy hang out. And, you know, just sit down and eat some food and watch TV.
00:37:00 Speaker 1
You're a fitness guru. Talk a little bit about how you got into that and and what you do on the side.
00:37:06 Speaker 2
Yeah, I am. So you know, fitness is a big part of my life. I'm actually certified as a fitness trainer and a nutrition coach. And I I guess you know, I always really kind of gravitated towards just sport. I was always an active kid. But during grad school is really when I needed an outlet to do something that did not require my brain. And I got really into.
00:37:27 Speaker 2
During sports and and racing, and so, you know, at at one point I even qualified for the World Championships in Duathlon, which is a cycling and and running event. So I got really into it. I met my husband at at these track practices that I used to go to. So it was very much a part of my life and it and it just it still it still is in many ways.
00:37:36 Speaker 1
No way.
00:37:48 Speaker 2
I mean I you know, it's what keeps me centered and and motivated. I'm much more into weightlifting these days than endurance sports. But yeah, it's, you know, I can nerd out on all things fitness and nutrition as much as work.
00:38:00 Speaker 2
So yeah, really love it.
00:38:00 Speaker 1
I'd say me too I I'd say that's that's me too, but everybody knows. And if you see me, you know, fitness is not in my repertoire. Let's be honest. I mean, I could barely, I could barely get a mile underneath my belt before I'd be just panting. So good on you for doing that.
00:38:16 Speaker 2
Well, you know what really gets me going? Yeah. You know what really gets me going is, you know, when I look at.
00:38:18 Speaker 1
What's that?
00:38:22 Speaker 2
You know, how do these things fit together? You know, your passion for, for work and making, you know, the employee experience so great and then fitness. And I think ultimately what drives me is getting people to realize that they're they're, you know, their potential for greatness in all aspects physically, professionally. You know, I really do. The one thing that fascinates me about humans and why.
00:38:41 Speaker 2
You know, I I.
00:38:42 Speaker 2
Have committed my life to just bettering things for them is because I think that we're really capable of greatness, of doing, just doing really great, wonderful things. So anything that helps people feel their best.
00:38:54 Speaker 2
And feel that they're, you know, that anything is possible if they put their mind to it. That's really what I love doing. And I love showing folks that maybe at some point didn't feel that fitness was in their realm of, you know, things that they enjoy doing, unlocking that for them a little bit and saying actually, you know, you're capable of doing a.
00:39:09 Speaker 2
Lot more than you think so.
00:39:10 Speaker 1
Well, maybe we'll have to chat about that after after the show because you know, I could use a little motivation in that that regard after sitting in front of teams all day. So man, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you for spending time and so so thankful that.
00:39:24 Speaker 1
You and the team are doing what you're doing for us, and I'm hoping those that aren't with us and the organization are are getting.
00:39:30 Speaker 1
To learn how to potentially leverage your smarts and apply, apply it to their work as well. So thank you so much for joining us. So great to have you really appreciate it.
00:39:39 Speaker 2
Thank you, nick.
00:39:40 Speaker 1
And thanks to you all for listening to human centered as well. To learn more about our CX practice and our approach to the work, check us out online at vmyr.com Slash.
00:39:49 Speaker 1
CX, we also love to hear your feedback on the show. Give us a rating and OfferUp your thoughts wherever you listen to your podcasts, including Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon, and more. Have a topic idea or just want to drop us a line you can connect with me on X, formerly known as Twitter at Nick Brunker, or just shoot us an e-mail. The address is humancentered@vmlyr.com.
00:40:10 Speaker 1
Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.